Power

[NOL LUV DI]

Originally Posted by Tel Prydain

This is a self-defeating argument.

Actually it wasn't an argument just a self evident statement.

If we were to propose an argument about people who would make what might seem non-sensible choices such as buying more expensive items because of the promise of Flybuys we would have to delve into the psychology people on a population and individual basis and what role emotion makes in decision making.

It would be easier however to simply consider the premise that the marketers know that enough people in the population will behave in this way that it makes the loss made on those that actually gain from large purchases paid for in cash is offset significantly by those that make no or small claims on the Flybuys.

No different to the credit card users who use it for 30 days interest free credit.

Remember when we talk about wealth redistribution it's always being redistributed. It's only a question of how much is re-distributed up versus re-distributed down. When I pay my mortgage I'm redistributing my wealth to the bank, when I but a 360 game I'm redistributing my wealth to the shop and Microsoft and so on. When someone pays a high rental for sub-standard accommodation that's wealth distribution.

It might seem semantics but when you only consider wealth distribution as a one way street i.e. from the rich to the poor it becomes so easy to label the people at the bottom as lazy money grabbing people when in fact most people rich or poor are simply good, hardworking honest people.

Most people are not driven by making money - it's not an intrinsic human trait. Those that are driven by money don't understand this simple truism. Raising their family and keeping them safe is far more important in most people's lives.

How do you ensure that people are able to do this in a reasonable way is the challenge.

[NOL LUV DI]

I've finished cooking tea now so am off to eat it.

Just thought I would add that I'm not saying I'm right and you are wrong - I'm just saying their are different perspectives that need to be considered.

I don't quite agree that capitalism is the best method I think that democracy is the best method - the election of representatives to represent all the people, including minorities.

That's quite different from majority rule too which is not a good system.

[Tel Prydain]

Originally Posted by NOL LUV DI

Most people are not driven by making money - it's not an intrinsic human trait. Those that are driven by money don't understand this simple truism. Raising their family and keeping them safe is far more important in most people's lives.

I have worked in and around counselling centers for a good long while, and I have to say that it has damaged my faith in humanity somewhat. I have had someone asking me for money to buy nappies after spending his dole payment on booze. I'd get that same request from him at least twice a month. And it's worse when we know that he had won lotto four years before that....
But at least he didn't do anything worse then spend all his money on drink - he was a lot better then many of the others I had contact with.
Let's just say, there is a reason I dropped that job-path like a bag of shit and went to work for a big company.

I am quite middle class myself, however my folks sure as hell aren't and nor are my siblings. My parents worked their asses off to give as kids a better go of it, but the best things they gave us was common sense and the knowlage to do a good budget.
I, somewhat idealistically, set about my adult life to make things better for the 'lower class' and the rather desturbing thing that I found is that a dam fair number of them are in holes of their own making.
Granted, my job didn't really put me in contact with the cream of the crop, but it did show me that the people who deserve help are often not the ones asking for it.


When I give money to various groups it's because I choose too, and I value that I am able to give of my own feel will - other then have the goverment tell me I have to. I also value the fact that I get to deside where it goes. And, if my family is having a rough time I can give it to them instead.

[NOL LUV DI]

Tel I don't disagree with anything you have said. It's tough working with people at the bottom end and you can lose your faith in humanity. You can lose it just as easily working for the corporate sector or the government as well.

It's the success's in working there that make it worthwhile - not the failures and sometimes perseverance is required and sometimes you make a difference for the children in the families not the adults - and mostly it's about the children.

Experience tells you me can't always pick who will or won't change and sometimes the most surprising people make enormous changes.

Mostly I talk to my staff about giving people hope - hope that they can change their own lives by doing something different - not hope that someone will change the world for them.

At the same time often all the effort goes at the bottom end and support for the people in the middle are not supported - as long as we all help support others in our communities it's a better place to live.

[Tel Prydain]

Originally Posted by NOL LUV DI

Tel I don't disagree with anything you have said. It's tough working with people at the bottom end and you can lose your faith in humanity. You can lose it just as easily working for the corporate sector or the government as well.

Yeah, but the corporate sector allows me to look after my family and still have funds left over for other things. Like help out groups... or, you know, games.

Originally Posted by NOL LUV DI

and mostly it's about the children.

The place I spent the bulk of my time was child-focused. Probably why I spent so long there. And why I still like to support groups like barnardos.